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Sunday, June 28 2009

As the United States prepares to celebrate its 233rd year of independence, we are forced to take note of this dismaying reality: our new president is no friend of freedom.  This isn't intended to be unfair, unproductive Barack-bashing.  Instead, it is simply the culminating, irrefutable conclusion any observer comes to after evaluating his first six months in office.  Allow me to explain.

 

American greatness was achieved through the unrelenting power of a free people pursuing their dreams.  Whether it was Pilgrims in a hostile new world, teachers and farmers armed with muskets, pioneers facing a treacherous wilderness, inventors enduring setbacks, volunteers storming beaches, or citizens rushing into smoldering towers to save their fellow countrymen, the glory of America has never been defined by its government, but rather its people.

 

The American people have cured diseases, constructed skyscrapers, explored the ocean depths, and walked on the moon.  And we did these things because we were free - free to create, free to innovate, and free to pursue goals once thought unimaginable by man.  That is what has set this civilization apart.

 

Ours is a history marked by individualism, responsibility, and self-reliance...not government-reliance.  Yet, all that seems lost on our 44th president who startlingly declared in his inaugural address, "The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified." 

 

To any fair-minded observers, those words should have resounded through the halls of our consciences and awakened us from the media-induced trance of Obama-obsession we might have been suffering.  For these are not the words of individualism and self reliance.  They are the siren song of government dependence that both belittles and underestimates the ingenuity and creativity of the American people in a way that would have appalled the Founding Fathers.

 

That's not to say that our forefathers didn't care about families making a decent wage, getting good healthcare, or having a happy retirement.  To the contrary, they cared so much about those things that they offered up their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to bless us with the liberty necessary to earn them for ourselves.

 

But now the assumption of our political leadership is that we need the government to help us pay our mortgage, to find us jobs, to set our wages and salaries, to keep our businesses afloat, to give us healthcare, to pay our credit card debt, to finance our college tuition and to fund our retirement.  And as we ignorantly shrug and submit to such a proposition, we are blind to the shadow of slavery that is creeping over us.  As we foolishly screech about such things being our "rights," we drown out the sound of our own chains that are being fitted for us.

 

For when we accept the increased role of government that Obama proposes - one intended to prevent our failure - we necessarily grant it the power to prevent our success and prosperity.  How? 

 

In order to prevent the failure of its people, the American government must begin making decisions for them.  They must begin controlling them.  Give people freedom and they might screw up, invest poorly, or purchase the wrong product.  So the government makes the decisions - they choose your healthcare plan, they choose your retirement investments, and they set your salary and wages.

 

Am I making this up?  Look at the bank bailouts, the home mortgage bailouts, or the bailout of the auto industry.  In each instance, the government steps in to prevent failure and then sets new rules, determines new interest rates, determines investments, determines product lines, takes over finances, and hires and fires officials at its will.  The government usurps control - all in the name of protecting you.

 

Call it loans, call it restructuring, call it security, call it stabilization, call it compassion...call it whatever you want.  But one thing it's not: it's not freedom.

 

The Founding Fathers, the very architects of our great success, would have rejected Obama's fundamental disregard for the power of liberty.  How do I know?  Compare their words.  While the 44th president says that the question of the size of the government is not the important question, the 4th president and Father of the Constitution, James Madison, saw it differently.  He wrote in the Federalist Papers, "Is the power of the government greater than ought to have been vested in it? This is the first question."

 

And why was it the first question?  Because Madison and his fellow patriots understood that increasing the size of government meant decreasing the freedom of the people.  Barack Obama is no friend of freedom.

Posted by: Peter Heck AT 03:23 pm   |  Permalink   |  60 Comments  |  Email
Comments:
I thought that the liberals were supposed to look out for the "little guy"? Now it seems if by that they mean, "We will make every decision for you, because you can't do that for yourself." They know how you should educate your children, what kind of car you should drive, what kind of food you should eat, what kind of healthcare you should have, how much you should spend on energy and what kind of energy to buy. They have shown themselves to be the elitists we have always accused them to be. Wake up, America!
Posted by vcamatt on 06/29/2009 09:53:17
"The American people have cured diseases, constructed skyscrapers, explored the ocean depths, and walked on the moon. And we did these things because we were free - free to create, free to innovate, and free to pursue goals once thought unimaginable by man. That is what has set this civilization apart." ... And government wasn't involved in any other those things? Do you have any idea how important the government is in both funding and regulating these endeavors? "This isn't intended to be unfair, unproductive Barack-bashing." If this were true, you would not blame decades-long trends in American government policy all one this one man, our President. ...But ya did.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 06/29/2009 16:45:39
Pete, if ever your house is ablaze and the firetrucks roll into your driveway, stick to your principles and turn them away. Remind them you're not reliant on government - you'll exercise your *own freedom* in putting out your fiery domicile with a garden hose. Until then, don't make an anti-government rant without acknowledging at least *some* of the necessary services our government provides. Nor can you claim Obama hates freedom when he's working towards reforms that the public has been clamoring for, for example, national healthcare. So it's not just Obama, it's also the majority of Americans you find yourself disagreeing with.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 06/29/2009 17:06:27
"So it's not just Obama, it's also the majority of Americans you find yourself disagreeing with." Including NGav, apparently. Let us remember your comments just a couple days ago: "My contention is that the nation-state of America...was founded upon freedom."
Posted by peterheck on 06/29/2009 18:26:26
NGav says, "If this were true, you would not blame decades-long trends in American government policy all one this one man, our President. ...But ya did." Uh...nope. How about instead of defending the obvious, I'll put the burden of proof on you. NGav, tell us where I blamed all of those trends on Obama. I may hold him accountable for pushing and furthering those trends because they are bad, but I'm anxious to see your evidence for your confident assertion. The dance begins in 3...2...1...
Posted by peterheck on 06/29/2009 18:31:03
I have to admit that I think you're an intelligent guy, NGav, but honestly, you say some of the most ridiculous things. The firetrucks, seriously? Are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of limited government? Obviously there are essential services that government is responsible for...you might have noticed I mentioned the Founders' model of effective government. Fire, police, military all fall into that category. Here's the deal: you're smart, so don't play dumb. You know there is a distinction between government that protects and government that controls. I believe in the former. You apparently believe in the latter?
Posted by peterheck on 06/29/2009 18:35:50
If you think that Obama's takeover is what Americans were clamoring for, you're as clueless as they come. A lot of people got duped. Myself included. Now I work for a car company owned by the government. At least until I can get out while the getting's good.
Posted by Jesse on 06/29/2009 18:37:47
The most powerful and thought-provoking part of this well written, though pointed, piece is the comparison of President Obama's words to President Madison's. They should give any of us pause in considering the path we are on. N. Gavelis may be right that Barack Obama is not responsible for the trend. But there is no denying that Peter Heck is right in that Barack Obama is taking that trend to all new extremes. We should consider the consequences before we proceed.
Posted by Arm and Hammer on 06/29/2009 18:40:29
I'm embarrassed for you, N. Gavelis. If your best argument is to call Peter Heck an anarchist, maybe you should have just not commented. Because that was pathetic. Maybe you've just got a little crush on Obama?
Posted by Mr. T on 06/29/2009 18:48:44
As much as I may disagree with him, I do have to say that I don't think N.Gav was calling me an anarchist. I think his point was simply that government has legitimate obligations - something I do not dispute. I just don't believe those obligations extend to areas like setting our wages, funding our retirements, providing our healthcare, paying our mortgages, choosing our doctors, etc. I prefer freedom in those instances. I would sincerely like to ask you, N.Gav...do you disagree with me on that point? Do you want the government making those decisions and doing those things for you? If so, why do you champion the notion of freedom? And if not, why are you disagreeing with me when I blast Obama for supporting them?
Posted by peterheck on 06/29/2009 18:50:22
I'm with you, Jesse. I honestly don't believe this is what Americans thought came with "hope and change." I think that's why you are seeing Obama's personal popularity remain high, but his policy approval rating dropping like a rock. But it doesn't change the fact that he's setting the policy and that's why I choose to speak out against what I see as a destructive philosophy. In terms of your situation, I hope it all works out. In all honesty, a government-run entity may be the safest place to be these coming days. Sadly. Terribly sad.
Posted by peterheck on 06/29/2009 18:53:31
Jesse, you might be interested in this story as a follow-up to your comments and my response. It seems as though our theory about Obama's popularity may be right (just copy and paste this into your web browser and check it out): http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Posted by peterheck on 06/30/2009 12:08:20
I know you're for limited gov't Pete, but the question is where do you draw that limit? Why should the government protect us from fire and drugs but not from illness and injury? How can you knock Obama for going too far when you neglect to define how far *is* too far? You decry things like gov't involvement in retirement when in fact Social Security has been immensely effective in combating geriatric poverty. You ham-handedly dismiss government programs as nefarious incursions on our freedom without even assessing them. Last time Obama was an enemy to life, this time he's an enemy to freedom. Given that you are an intelligent fellow yourself, Pete, I think you are capable of more than political hit jobs.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 06/30/2009 12:44:55
Even if I agreed with the simplistic libertarian rhetoric and the unfair attacks on our president, I'd still be left asking "What's the point of this article?" Nothing, really nothing, could be less productive than bemoaning the historical, inexorable expansion of American federal government. This self-defeating behavior only all makes sense in light of an increasingly common psychiatric disorder, outrage-ophilia. Although the clinical fetish for outrage might seem perverse and tragic, studies suggest Republican furor promises to replace oil as America's primary energy source by the year 2012. Keep huffing and puffing, people. Your country needs you.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 06/30/2009 14:23:14
NGav. What is too much federal gov't? I contend that the federal gov't should be limited to the things expressly stated in the Constitution. Isn't that a novel idea!? States and local governments should do whatever their citizens would like for them to do. Hey, I think I'm on to something here! Perhaps one size doesn't fit all.
Posted by vcamatt on 06/30/2009 16:36:40
You are yet to demonstrate how anything I have said about Obama is an "unfair attack." Either he is calling for the rapid expansion of American government or he is not. Either you agree with that call or you don't. I don't. I don't want others to agree with it either. That is the point of the article. Was liberal huffing and puffing over the war in Iraq useless? Or did it not end with a shift in power to someone you prefer? Might our huffing and puffing not bring about the same? Some 'hope and change' if you will. Face it, NGav, you consistently put yourself on a pedestal of being above the fray when you are as much a part of it as anyone. You've developed some Obama-tendencies!
Posted by peterheck on 06/30/2009 18:10:31
This is amazing. You ask me where I draw the line. WELL...I draw the line with the very propositions being made by our current political leadership. Governments' duties should be restricted to securing our liberties and performing basic functions people can not perform for themselves in their individual capacities. I am outlining in this column what I don't think government should be doing. You blast me for doing that, then demand that I do it! Perhaps I should ask you again...where do YOU believe the line is? Do you want the government making those decisions and doing those things for you? If so, why do you champion the notion of freedom? And if not, why are you disagreeing with me when I blast Obama for supporting them?
Posted by peterheck on 06/30/2009 18:18:36
Calling the President of the United States "NO FRIEND TO FREEDOM" is an unfair attack and also a glaring double standard, assuming you did not apply the same title to George W. Bush and all others complicit in the expansion of federal government. (Did you?) About the pedestal comment - check yourself, Pete. You're the one with the radio show, the website, and the blog with your name and face on it. I only submit my opinions as footnotes to your long-winded diabtribes. This puts you on the pedestal and me in the peanut gallery. If you want to accuse me of arrogance you'll need to consider a wiser tack.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/01/2009 10:59:19
I blast you not *because* you criticize President Obama, but because of the counterproductive and inflammatory way in which you tend to do it. What's the point of harping on all these perceived problems if you don't propose a solution? Your 17:10:31 suggests your huffing and puffing could influence the 2012 election, apparently forgetting that your readers generally agree with you already or don't and leave. As a result, your articles fail to make more people angry about Obama; they just make the *same* people more angry about Obama. This choir-preaching is pointless even for your own purposes, but it does tickle that outrage fetish I was talking about earlier.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/01/2009 11:38:59
"Governments' duties should be restricted to securing our liberties and performing basic functions people can not perform for themselves." This answer is agreeable, but does it really explain why the gov't should protect us from fire and drugs but not from injury and disease? The problem here, for all of us, is that government involvement in our life represents a slippery slope, one where it's tough to draw a line, and tougher still to keep gov't from crossing it. On that note, we could discuss *how* to get the power back into the hands of the citizen. We could push for *direct* democracy in the form of state propositions. Both McCain and Obama were silent on this, whereas "kooks" like Mike Gravel championed true democracy. Hmm.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/01/2009 12:34:50
I don't think bail-outs are a good idea, but I think an even worse idea was allowing corporations to become "too big to fail" in the first place. The irony is that the "socialist" act of bail-outs only happened because corporations were allowed to practically monopolize their industries under the banner of economic freedom. Think about it: corporations as big as the ones we are bailing out are a threat to democracy because they can - and HAVE - bought out government. All these bail-outs don't represent some encroaching socialist dystopia, but a capitalist dystopia in which the government has been bought out by private interests. The problem is not socialism; it's a corporate takeover of American government.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/01/2009 12:44:38
Government must not own industry and industry must not own government. The result of either situation would be disaster, but the former is upon us and the latter is already here. I should point out that massive corporations don't represent capitalism - a market is not free if 3 or 4 corporations own it. Some *solutions* I propose: expand anti-trust laws, reform campaign finance rules to disempower special interests, etc. It's probably a day late and a dollar short, but I think we need to look at solutions rather than just lament what America has become.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/01/2009 13:07:39
45 years ago the president said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Now we get "The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified." What a difference a generation can make.
Posted by James on 07/01/2009 21:27:19
I agree with the above assessment of "capitalism" (My preferred terminology is the more correct free market). Being a "capitalist," or free market advocate, does not compell one to support corporatism at all costs. Indeed, most businesses, large and small, are more than happy to short-circuit free market dynamics whenever they can do so for their benefit.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 07:15:18
This is exactly why access to the markets must be as widely available to everyone as possible. It is why no corporation should be able to buy political favor to expand its control. It is also why a government should not be able to manipulate a market. If the free market had its way, there would probably be no AIG or FreddieMac or FannieMae or even GM anymore because they have failed to fulfill their role as businesses. Others demonstrating better services and products and profitability would be replacing them... and we would be better off. This is one reason why President Obama is no friend of freedom (and why we need our republic to remain true to its constitutional foundings).
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 07:17:33
N Gavelis writes: "Calling the President of the United States "NO FRIEND TO FREEDOM" is an unfair attack and also a glaring double standard, assuming you did not apply the same title to George W. Bush and all others complicit in the expansion of federal government." Every conservative commentator I read or heard criticized rather pointedly the Bush Administration for abandoning the constitutional principle of limited [federal] government. No double standard or hypocrisy at all. Classic conservatives tend to be rather consistent in their love for liberty as defined and implemented by America's Founders.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 07:26:35
"Calling the President of the United States "NO FRIEND TO FREEDOM" is an unfair attack and also a glaring double standard, assuming you did not apply the same title to George W. Bush and all others complicit in the expansion of federal government. (Did you?)" Yes, he did. Peter came down very hard on the bloated Bush budgets. As have I.
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/02/2009 12:52:07
"What's the point of harping on all these perceived problems if you don't propose a solution?" Actually, he has spent considerable time and energy into suggesting alternatives. I know that along with the criticism of President Obama's handling of foreign affairs, there has been a suggested alternative response in each instance. Additionally, with regard to the health care debate, he had a link of a proposed measure by another congressman. He's offering alternatives. You're just paying selective attention.
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/02/2009 12:52:46
A couple of quotes: Concerning the role of government... "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." - T. Jefferson Concerning pure democracy: "It has been observed that a pure democracy, if it were practicable, would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies, in which the people themselves deliberated, never possessed on feature of good government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity." - A. Hamilton
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/02/2009 12:59:16
Hi Chuck, remember when the Great Depression happened and Hoover thought it would all sort itself out? My point being, there are times the government should intervene in the market. For instance, we agree mega-corporations don't represent capitalism, but in order to prevent them from growing even bigger, we rely on government intervention in the form of anti-trust laws. We need to intervene wisely. A counterexample is the Fed, a private entity that has governmental power, control over our currency, etc, but IS NOT EVEN AUDITED!!! Whenever the federal gov't intervenes in the market, there must be commensurate oversight.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/02/2009 15:33:29
Hi James. Your post implies that, whereas past presidents preached service, President Obama is preaching only entitlement. If you'd been at my college graduation and listened to the speaker, then-presidential candidate Obama, you would know differently. He spent most of his speech urging us to avoid the temptations of the private sector and to instead joint volunteer efforts, giving back to the community. No entitlement crap. Of course, I realize righties like to see Obama in the most negative light possible, so I guess there's really no point in my trying to set thhe facts straight if people prefer them crooked.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/02/2009 15:44:52
Hello A. There's a reason you found my comments under this article - because they address THIS article. In THIS article, there were NO solutions and NO alternatives. So the fact that Pete offers solutions to *different* issues in *different* articles could not be less relevant. You won't find solutions in this article because solutions are not the goal of a partisan hit-job.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/02/2009 16:03:27
N. Gavelis writes: "I propose: expand anti-trust laws..." Actually, anti-trust laws have been expanded, as has their style of application. I quote from "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell (2004): "In a fundamental departure from the centuries-old traditions of Anglo-American law, the government need only make a superficial or prima facie case, based on gross numbers, to shift the burden of proof to the accused." (p. 112) In plainer language, an accused entity is no longer "innocent until PROVEN guilty;" the accused must, instead, prove their innocence.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 19:10:56
Even then, Sowell notes that genuine monopolies in the American economy are a rarity. Based upon the standard practice in American courts & anti-trust literature to describe the percentage of sales made by a given company as the share of the market it "controls," companies like Pan Am & Graflex "controlled" a substantial share of their market. Yet, the passage of time showed that they controlled nothing or else they would have never allowed themselves to be forced out of business.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 19:11:52
And another tidbit of note concerning anti-trust laws in America: "In practice, most of the great anti-trust cases in the United States have involved some business that charged LOWER prices than its competitors." (p. 110) Sort of counter-intuitive, isn't it?
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/02/2009 19:14:27
I don't quite follow what your grand point is NG. Peter produces things that Pres. Obama stands for and how it is contrary to the intent of the founding fathers and their concept of freedom. He presents his argument and provides supports. Maybe you just don't like Peter's foundational argument. Ok, fine. Now present how and why it is an unfair argument. It seems a bit illogical, though, to insist that he hasn't produced a solution when solutions were never the intent of the article. It seems to me more that you want to dismiss his points by claiming it's a "partisan hit job". FYI, Hoover hardly sat idly by to let the market correct itself. If anything, the depression was exacerbated by governmental intervention.
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/03/2009 00:26:34
NGav, Open your eyes, man! Pete's solution to the problem is right in front of you. The solution is FREEDOM from the nanny state.
Posted by vcamatt on 07/03/2009 08:00:59
Hi Peter, another great column. You give me hope for the younger generation when I see how you understand freedom and what it takes to keep it. I also have hope for N that he will grow more conservative as he matures, most of us do as we realize how much of our liberties the government is taking from us. vcamatt, the first post, said it best; the government is trying to gain control on every aspect of our lives and is more in danger of succeeding now than at any other in our history. Our president is "no friend of freedom".
Posted by Grandma Jean on 07/03/2009 10:08:59
N. Gavelis writes, "...remember when the Great Depression happened and Hoover thought it would all sort itself out?" Yes, I, too, recall being taught that Hoover took the "conservative, capitalist hands-off" response to the economic slump. Turns out that is not anywhere near the complete story. In fact, he did pretty much the opposite. Similar to the Bush-Obama bailout strategy, he started his own bailouts. For some strange reason known only to the laws of economy, they didn't work out then, either.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/03/2009 10:22:40
N. Gavelis writes, "Whenever the federal gov't intervenes in the market, there must be commensurate oversight." Not even this justifies federal government intervention in the market place. In rather well-known and well-documented instances of government intervention - such as the USSR, China, Cuba, et al - there are all kinds of oversight. The consistent result of any collective economic structure is that it requires a reduction of liberty. That is what oversight ensures.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/03/2009 10:32:55
Take, for instance, the recent federal imposition into credit card practices. Instead of choosing to handle the issues in a free market, a lot of rather smart people have bowed to government intervention to "rescue" them. Oversight? Well, now the government has a hand in determining who gets credit and who does not. More personal liberty has been surrendered to the federal government... again.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/03/2009 10:33:41
All too often, people seeking to combat Heck's ridiculous diatribes focus too much on the small details, and less on the big picture. It goes something like this: 1. Peter Heck fully and totally misrepresents the beginnings of the cosmos, our planet, and (especially) our species. 2. That because of this initial misrepresentation, he is forced to consistently square the circle to make modern ideas fit into his sub-modern philosophy
Posted by ServiceNoKings on 07/04/2009 03:36:37
3. That because of both of these prior misrepresentations, he again is led to misrepresent the origins of our country and the religion of (all) its founders. 4. That, in an attempt to paint the founders as model men of faith for us to follow, he attributes to them a demi-god status that fails to live up to what the true history shows 5. That because of this, Peter Heck's nationality is very much intertwined into his religion, andit becomes hard to determine if he worships "god" or America.
Posted by ServiceNoKings on 07/04/2009 03:37:27
and finally 6. Because everything Peter Heck writes is in itself based on false assumptions, half truths, and misrepresentations, his arguments are nearly impossible to debunk to his (and his followers) satisfaction because they are only partially logical to begin with. Thank you.
Posted by ServiceNoKings on 07/04/2009 03:38:01
*****IMPORTANT***** This is my gift to all those following this discussion. I recommend everyone read THE ULTIMATE DEPRESSION SURVIVAL GUIDE: PROTECT YOUR SAVINGS, BOOST YOUR INCOME, & GROW WEALTHY EVEN IN THE WORST OF TIMES by Martin D. Weiss. I mention this for two reasons: (1) It includes data that pertains to this current discussion. Not a political debate discussion; simply an enlightening recount of recent economic events. (2) I am not a typical "doom & gloomer." I have historically resisted "meltdown" predictions of the American economy. More follows...
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/04/2009 09:07:10
I read a preceding book by Dr. Weiss & found his recommendations to be worth considering. I wondered if they were still valid in these circumstances, so I found his latest book & am reading it. Weiss is not as alarmist as the title suggests since he admits that no one knows for certain if a depression is looming. He makes recommendations on how to prepare for such an eventiality along with suggestions for how to respond if it doesn't happen. He is very well balanced. Mr. Weiss is the president of an independent research firm. I have absolutely no connection with his firm or any subsidiary. I make no gain of any kind if you get his book. I am merely offering readers te opportunity to be as prepared as possible.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/04/2009 09:22:18
Hey ServiceNoKings, what the crap was that? The funniest thing is how remarkably void of ANY substance or support YOUR entire diatribe was. The best line was: "it's tough to know if he worships 'god' or America." What?! That doesn't even make sense! You're what many of us would call a "D.B." But thanks for the laugh. Mr. Heck, dust the dust from the bottom of your sandals and move on.
Posted by Mr. T. on 07/04/2009 23:12:58
SNK says, "Peter Heck's nationality is very much intertwined into his religion, andit becomes hard to determine if he worships "god" or America." Uh...his nationality is very much intertwined into his religion? So if he was Canadian or Norweigian he wouldn't be a Christian. Now THAT is some high level thinking. I have to say reading through that little 3 post spectacle I think it's fair to say someone thinks they're a bit smarter than they really are...and it's not Mr. Heck.
Posted by ServiceNoBrain on 07/04/2009 23:16:26
Thanks for your interesting comments, ServiceNoKings. I will leave points 1 and 2 to another discussion another time. Just suffice my response to be, "uh...yeah." But in terms of your points 3 & 4, allow me to simply offer you a two word challenge: prove it. In other words, how do I misrepresent the Founders or the foundation of American culture - please use their words, writings, and primary source documentation to do this...not case law from 1947 onward. It's easy to throw those statements out. Trust me, there are many intellectual lazy folks who do. But now you're being called on it. Prove it.
Posted by peterheck on 07/04/2009 23:23:05
You might want to have a quick brainstorm with NGav before you proceed, ServiceNoKings. If you look back on the comment section from last week's column (America's Disappearing Unity) you will see NGav tried to take Heck on relative to our cultural foundation and went from saying this at the start of the convo: "The freedom and also the relative safety of American life comes not from religious myth-based ethics, but from the common-sense recognition that all people are worth something, by virtue of simply being people." (post 3) to saying this at the end: "Of course Christian principles were important in maintaining social order and restraints." (post 29) Tread lightly.
Posted by Mr. T. on 07/04/2009 23:48:15
Chuck, I'm just a young guy with a degree in bio so in order for me to continue our discussion I'd have to do some catching up. SNK, I too have noticed some of the things you are pointing out, but I tend not to connect them all together. Please elaborate on your points - apparently a lot of people are interested to hear them. As for Mr. T's last comment, I guess people see what they want to. Looking at the two quotes Mr. T chose, I see no conflict whatsoever. Never do I attribute American freedom to Christianity, only American social order to Christianity as a matter of cultural happenstance. What Mr. T sees in my quotes, I can only wonder.
Posted by N. Gavelis on 07/05/2009 13:04:08
N. Gavelis writes: "Chuck, I'm just a young guy with a degree in bio so in order for me to continue our discussion I'd have to do some catching up." First, being a young guy makes it even more imperative & beneficial that you look into resources like I mentioned above. You have a lot more time to respond to pitfalls and opportunities surrounding every recession and, if worse comes to worse, a depression. Again, I remind everyone that I am "selling" nothing but hard-earned advice and experience from which you can potentially benefit.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/05/2009 22:46:43
Second, I am not suggesting that you become an economist, but I do recommend that you familiarize yourself with some classic economists: Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, and Milton Friedman, and some contemporary economists: Thomas Sowell & Walter Williams. They will familairize you with the inverse relationship between liberty and collectivism. In a nutshell, those who really care the most about true individual liberty and freedom will tend to support policies that limit government. The above economists and others provide valid empirical evidence.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/05/2009 22:47:41
And a BTW... The resource I recommended by Dr. Weiss also provided great illumination on the government & markets relationship. Again, this is not the main intent of the author, but it jumped out at me in light of this discussion. Proper regulation from a government is to put into place the necessary requirements for an orderly & open market. Market participants then determine the activity that occurs. It is not government role to run a private industry or a sector. Providing an accessible orderly market with open information available to all participants is all a government needs to do. Armed with this, market participants will handle the rest. Quite adequately, I might add.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/05/2009 22:59:20
I'll second CC's recommendations. Milton Friedman is fantastic although even in his more basic books he can get a bit over the heads of the common joe. Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics is a must read for your Intro to Econ self-education class. It's easy to read but covers critical economic theory very well.
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/06/2009 01:14:27
I am rather certain that as a bio major, N. Gavelis has had exposure to a variety of philosophical literature, so I sincerely believe that he could handle Friedman. Nevertheless, I, too, find Sowell more "readable."
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/07/2009 18:30:59
I was away from my resources when Hoover was mentioned. There is plenty of historic material detailing what Hoover did before and during the (first) deep recession and then depression. "In subsequent decades Hoover would be assailed for his unwillingness to use the powers of government to halt the Depression, but the truth is that his activist policies deepened and prolonged the business downturn. Surprisingly, in subsequent decades, even Republicans came to buy the assertion that Hoover had stood for small government, when in fact he had more in common with Franklin Roosevelt than with Coolidge and Mellon." (Larry Schweikart & Michael Allen, A Patriot's History of the United States, 2004, p. 555)
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/07/2009 18:36:53
What is most frightening is that the Bush-Obama bailouts are mirroring the very actions that turned out to be so economically devastating in the Hoover-Roosevelt era. In both cases, political leaders are bent on "demand" side fixes while injecting policy upon policy that hamstring the "supply" side necessary for market innovation and job creation. It seems to be a race to see who can create the worst depression, except, of course, the results are in for the Hoover-Roosevelt era.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/07/2009 18:45:29
Which makes the Bush-Obama era even worse: they have the data available to know better. Yet, they (and really now, President Obama) have chosen to set aside the dramatic cause-and-effect evidence in favor of political gain. This is why I recommend Dr. Weiss's book. If we're going to have a depression, we might as well be ready for it as best we can. And, BTW, if a depression is somehow avoided, I will happily accept from you any number of "I told you so's." There are truly some things I have no interest in being right about.
Posted by ChucksChants on 07/07/2009 18:45:59
To piggyback on this, both President Reagan and President Clinton both faced severe market crashes in 1987 and 1997 (both drops of over 500 points). They both responded by (correctly) saying that it was a market adjustment and did nothing. Sure enough, the market picked up right where it left off and continued it's upward climb.
Posted by Asburystrider on 07/08/2009 11:59:56

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